<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1552</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/22/99 10:17:12 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 22 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1552<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1542<BR>
North American Electoral District<BR>
Re: Canada<BR>
Re: Far Future Terra<BR>
Re: Terra and the US in IY 1110 (was various)<BR>
Re: Canada...<BR>
RE: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: War of 1812<BR>
Re: the Canadians Among Us<BR>
RE: Rebellious Attitudes<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: Traveller roadshows<BR>
Re: Terra and the US in IY 1110 (was various)<BR>
RE: Traveller roadshows<BR>
Re: How much should a starship cost<BR>
Re: Traveller roadshows<BR>
3 words, and Homeworld (was Re: Travshorts IV)<BR>
Re:Brit Pack<BR>
Re: technology advances<BR>
Re: SF Trav game<BR>
RE: England<BR>
RE: Traveller roadshows<BR>
Re: How much should a starship cost<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Subject: In Jokes<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:17:24 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1542<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
> GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
> Sent: Tuesday, 21 December 1999 5:48 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1542<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> In a message dated 99-12-21 11:52:53 EST, you write:<BR>
><BR>
> << My guess is (if you can take the I:E map seriously) that there hasn't<BR>
>  actually been any huge rise in sea level, but that there *have* been some<BR>
>  massive hydrological-engineering projects which have submerged certain<BR>
>  areas.  Why Egypt and Siberia?  Your guess is as good as mine. . . >><BR>
><BR>
> John Harshman's fault. To create a body of water in the<BR>
> aformentioned places<BR>
> for the purposes of ameliorating the climate. Don't trust the coastal<BR>
> contours too closely. John's original map was skewed to fit the<BR>
> hex grid and<BR>
> then re-drawn by a geographically-challenged graphic artist.<BR>
><BR>
> Loren Wiseman<BR>
><BR>
That may be so, but where has the Antarctican Ice cap gone it is marked<BR>
clear on my copy, also Something odd appears to have happened to the Great<BR>
Australian Bite, and then Indonesia, Malaysia and New Guinea seem to have<BR>
lost a lot of land.<BR>
<BR>
Does look like a great melting took place.<BR>
<BR>
Antony Farrell<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:17:21 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: North American Electoral District<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Goffin<BR>
> Sent: Monday, 20 December 1999 3:01 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: United States<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> >From: JFZeigler@aol.comSubject: Re: United States<BR>
><BR>
> >I'm developing Terra (era 1120 in the G:T timeline)<BR>
> >for SJG.  Right now I'm thinking that virtually<BR>
> >*none* of the nation-states of the late 20th Century<BR>
> >still exist in any significant form in the Third<BR>
> >Imperium era.<BR>
> >I mean, think about it. . .how many nation-states of<BR>
> >about 1650 BC still exist today?  Ignoring the<BR>
> >question of whether there *were* any nation-<BR>
> >states in the modern sense that far back, you get<BR>
> >maybe two: Egypt and China.<BR>
><BR>
> India?<BR>
><BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
><BR>
Another possibility is that the old nations states exist as electoral<BR>
districts, ie the North American Electoral District, the Australasian<BR>
Electoral District etc.<BR>
<BR>
Antony Farrell<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:34:54 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Canada<BR>
<BR>
ROFLOL!  Geeze man, you owe me a keyboard!  :)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Charles Collin" <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 7:40 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Canada<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
What next? <BR>
> "You've never heard Shakespeare til you've heard it in the original<BR>
> Canadian, eh?"... <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:40:26 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Far Future Terra<BR>
<BR>
Wow, I remember that one!  It's been years since I thought of his work.<BR>
Weren't the bat-things pretty cool?<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "cos 90" <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 10:45 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Far Future Terra<BR>
Another suggestion: "After Man: A Zoology of the Future" by Dougal<BR>
Dixon. (ISBN 0312194331, published by Griffin in 1998; there may be<BR>
earlier, hardcover editions, but Amazon.com has this one listed as<BR>
available.) It postulates what life on Earth might be like 50 million<BR>
years in the future, 50 million years after some kind of ecological<BR>
catastrophe that ultimately resulted in the extinction of the human<BR>
race. It also has maps, as the continents have shifted in the interim.<BR>
An interesting read.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:34:12 -0500<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Terra and the US in IY 1110 (was various)<BR>
<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> [1] In the most recent book "Firedance" (a few years old now), we find<BR>
> out that "Aubrey Knight" is actually a "pureblood" *native* African.<BR>
> Which makes it quite likely that he's even *darker* than the way he's<BR>
> drawn on the cover.<BR>
<BR>
Really? What if he was from Morocco? Or Egypt? I saw a lot of<BR>
"pure-blood" Egyptians when I was there (years ago) but I didn't<BR>
see too many black people... anyway, people equating being African <BR>
with being black really bugs me.<BR>
<BR>
I mean, heck, there are plenty of 5-th generation Africans that<BR>
are whiter than I am. Of course, they all speak pseudo-Dutch,<BR>
but I'm sure they'd consider themselves Africans above everything <BR>
else.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Ethan Henry                                        egh@klg.com<BR>
Java Evangelist, KL Group                   http://www.klg.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:36:31 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Canada...<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 22 Dec 1999, The Roc wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I sometime think to myself how funny it must be to hear the story, "This<BR>
> mountain was named by the locals as, Tzbukkannann." only to find the locals<BR>
> didn't have the heart to tell the white explorers when asked, "What is that<BR>
> called?" and the answer really meaning, "It's a mountain you fool!"  ;^)<BR>
<BR>
Looking at maps of West & Central Africa, you can find a lot of rivers<BR>
with names like Silo, Sidilo, Dilo, etc., all noted down by European<BR>
explorers & travellers.  They got the name right from the locals in every<BR>
case -- they'd point at it and ask, what's that?  Or, what's that called?<BR>
And the locals would say, c'est de l'eau, or de l'eau, or c'est l'eau.<BR>
Since a French-based pidgin was a lingua franca (ha!) for big parts of the<BR>
area.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:48:25 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
Peter Trevor wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
Okay, just to be fair ... one of my Trav players won 1st place in<BR>
the UK M:TG championship and a free ride to the  US  championship<BR>
in Seattle (a few years ago).  Mere days before he left he looked<BR>
in his atlas and was stunned when he saw where Seattle was ... he<BR>
thought it was near New York.<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
My father met a honeymooning couple from England while he was<BR>
on layover at John F. Kennedy international airport in New York City.<BR>
The pair had just arrived, and were very excited about their next two<BR>
weeks. They'd be staying in New York City, of course, but they had<BR>
planned day trips to the Grand Canyon (in Colorado), the Mardi Gras<BR>
celebrations (in New Orleans), and some siteseeing in San Francisco<BR>
and Florida. They hadn't decided on whether they wanted to take<BR>
a riverboat ride on the Mississippi River yet, but they were thinking<BR>
of a day trip to the Colorado Rockies for their first skiing experience.<BR>
<BR>
They didn't believe him when he mentioned how many thousands<BR>
of miles these "day trips" would take.<BR>
<BR>
The biggest difference between an American and an Englishman:<BR>
an American thinks a hundred years is a long time, an Englishman<BR>
thinks a hundred miles is a long way.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 11:14:07 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/21/99 3:57:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< almost no US superfrigate was in battleworthy condition. >><BR>
<BR>
The United States and Constitution were in fine shape; they were just trapped <BR>
in New York and Boston...:-(<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:22:50 -0800<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: the Canadians Among Us<BR>
<BR>
>OK, "Bruce" - if that's your real name* - you're some kind of commie-<BR>
>pinko-symp provocateur, aren't you? Which begs the question of why the<BR>
>Traveller Socialist Conspiracy hasn't tried to recruit you yet...<BR>
<BR>
  My assignment from the secret Canadian Templar Masters is<BR>
inflitrating the American Military-Industrial-Scientific Complex<BR>
(hint: my work email address ends in "llnl.gov"), so membership in the<BR>
TSC would blow my cover.<BR>
<BR>
Michael Baldwin<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:20:25 -0600<BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Rebellious Attitudes<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca [mailto:shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca]<BR>
> <BR>
>   Hasn't the USG made a habit out of illegal action since the <BR>
> mid-nineteenth<BR>
> century or so? It's certainly not a very recent trend, in any case.<BR>
<BR>
Most governments do, eventually, make such a habit.  Doesn't make it right.<BR>
It also doesn't help to be described as having a 'Rebellious Attitude' when<BR>
one only wants the gov't to follow its own laws.<BR>
<BR>
If this be treason, you make the most of it.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  Dulinor saw great weaknesses in the 3I.  He took action that he<BR>
thought would be the start of those weaknesses being fixed.  In doing so, he<BR>
brought to the surface the true depth of those weaknesses, starting the<BR>
destruction that he was seeking to prevent.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
vargr1                                                   UPP-8D9B85<BR>
- ---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.<BR>
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ                vargr1@jcn1*com<BR>
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."      dmoody@bridge*com <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 09:35:53 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> My father met a honeymooning couple from England while he was<BR>
> on layover at John F. Kennedy international airport in New York City.<BR>
> The pair had just arrived, and were very excited about their next two<BR>
> weeks. They'd be staying in New York City, of course, but they had<BR>
> planned day trips to the Grand Canyon (in Colorado),<BR>
<BR>
They'd have been even more disappointed when they got there, considering<BR>
it's in Arizona...<BR>
<BR>
> The biggest difference between an American and an Englishman:<BR>
> an American thinks a hundred years is a long time, an Englishman<BR>
> thinks a hundred miles is a long way.<BR>
<BR>
Similar geographical dislocations happen between the eastern part of the<BR>
US and the western part...the 'next town over' back there is a few miles<BR>
or less, here it may be 50 or 70.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 11:45:00 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
> planned day trips to the Grand Canyon (in Colorado),<BR>
<BR>
They'd have been even more disappointed when they got there, considering<BR>
it's in Arizona...<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
Eep, yes...Colorado *River*, park (and canyon) in Arizona...<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 13:06:23 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller roadshows<BR>
<BR>
At 7:55 -0500 22/12/99, "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>
>Starting to sound like we have a Brit Pack - so what are the chances of<BR>
>getting together and doing some Trav at some stage?  What are you guys<BR>
>playing at the moment?<BR>
<BR>
At this moment? REM's 'Automatic for the People' while I write. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
As to games - nothing at the moment (we broke for Xmas). Last game <BR>
was 'Feng Sui' (hangs head in shame), before that Obsidian, before <BR>
that RQ3, and before that Traveller. The last few months have been <BR>
hectic and dropped the time I have for gaming. But that should <BR>
improve...<BR>
<BR>
I've plans for Faded Suns, 7th Sea and Traveller in the new year.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 12:15:52 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Terra and the US in IY 1110 (was various)<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> If you ever run into Steven Barnes at an SF con, ask him about the<BR>
> cover for the first edition of "Streetlethal". The protagonist is<BR>
> *very* Black[1]. This is made *quite* clear in the book.<BR>
><BR>
> On the cover he's white. The publishers explained that they had<BR>
> figuresthat "proved" it wouldn't sell as well with a black on the<BR>
> cover.<BR>
<BR>
I don't know whether to laugh or cry about that one.<BR>
<BR>
> The book did well, and in succeeding books in the series, Barnes<BR>
>got to have Aubrey knisht shown on the cover, as a *black* man<BR>
>(well, more dark brown, but...)<BR>
><BR>
> BTW, *Barnes* is black...<BR>
<BR>
That first edition of Streetlethal must have been painful then.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, as an ersatz defense of the sci-fi industry, I could point out<BR>
that there's a long history, dating back to the pulp era, of "cover<BR>
misrepresentation", which I've always found amusing to some degree. It *has*<BR>
been getting better over the last few years, however.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:25:18 +0000<BR>
From: Andy Coombes <coombes@bcs.org.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller roadshows<BR>
<BR>
At 09:51 PM 21/12/1999 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
>At 13:33 -0500 21/12/99, "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Really? Where in the north? I'm in Lancashire, near Rochdale.<BR>
<BR>
I'm between York, Leeds and Harrogate.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 09:38:40 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: How much should a starship cost<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> I rather expect that a "tramp freighter" is worth considerably than<BR>
> you'd think (and I'm talking about the current sea-going type). So<BR>
> perhaps we need to reconsider our overly romantic view of tramp<BR>
> freighters. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
What current sea-going tramp freighters?  In any case I'm not talking realism here (the Traveller economy doesn't make sense anyway), I'm talking playability.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:37:27 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller roadshows<BR>
<BR>
>At this moment? REM's 'Automatic for the People' while I write. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Good call - I'm at the office and am afflicted with alternate "Greatest <BR>
Christmas Album In The World....Ever" and a Disney compilation....I THINK <BR>
I'M GOING TO KILL MYSELF AFORE THE DAY'S OUT....<BR>
<BR>
>As to games - nothing at the moment (we broke for Xmas). Last game<BR>
>was 'Feng Sui' (hangs head in shame), before that Obsidian, before<BR>
>that RQ3, and before that Traveller. The last few months have been<BR>
>hectic and dropped the time I have for gaming. But that should<BR>
>improve...<BR>
<BR>
Feng Shui....hmmmmmm<BR>
<BR>
>I've plans for Faded Suns, 7th Sea and Traveller in the new year.<BR>
<BR>
Faded Suns any good?  Looks very 40K to my fleeting glance....<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 11:39:11 -0600 ()<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: 3 words, and Homeworld (was Re: Travshorts IV)<BR>
<BR>
>A 3-word tale - now there's a challenge....<BR>
><BR>
>Howsabout; "Dulinor shot Strephon."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
lol<BR>
<BR>
Although I still like "They all died." better.<BR>
<BR>
Did anyone ever read a short story titled _Sign at the Edge of the<BR>
Universe_? (If so, do you remember the author's name?)<BR>
<BR>
It was 3 words long, printed upside down. It read (you guessed it):<BR>
<BR>
"This end up."<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Has anyone else played the computer game "Homeworld?" If you<BR>
haven't, it's a real-time strategy game set in a 3d space environment, the<BR>
goal of which (ostensibly) is to reach your long-lost homeworld (but in<BR>
reality is to blow up or capture anything that moves).  It's not very<BR>
Travelleresque -- owing much more to tv sci fi, with fleets of ships within<BR>
spitting distance of each other -- but it *is* incredibly fun, gorgeous to<BR>
look at, and has a great soundtrack. I tell you, watching a fleet of<BR>
cruisers and destroyers open up on each other with their spinal mounts<BR>
while a choral version of _Adagio for Strings_ played in the background<BR>
nearly brought a tear to my eyes <sniff>. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, here's the ObTrav part: If you *have* seen the game, what is your<BR>
take on the sensor interface for 3d space? Do you see a navigator on a<BR>
Traveller starship using something similar, although possibly holographic?<BR>
Or would it be much more overwhelming. Personally, I think that the<BR>
interfaces would strive to keep information overload to a minimum, but be<BR>
customizable so that the navigator could delve for more and more<BR>
information by simply pulling down a menu or hitting a hot-key.<BR>
<BR>
Also, how do you envision gunnery stations? A simple mouse-click interface<BR>
or the equivalent (click click click! Those Vargr raiders are coming in too<BR>
fast!) or a more hands-on joystick model (ooh, gotta adjust for windage!!!).<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:49:48 -0000<BR>
From: "CHARLES WALKER" <cnw@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re:Brit Pack<BR>
<BR>
>><BR>
>>>Really? Where in the north? I'm in Lancashire, near Rochdale.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Doncaster mate, the right side of the Pennines  *grin*<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Leeds here,<BR>
<BR>
Well, I am in Huddersfield, but I work in Leeds<BR>
<BR>
Nick.<BR>
Behold,  his feet leave tracks in the sands of time,<BR>
and Death walks at his left hand...<BR>
UTUP.<BR>
0609-A666A667-5-5-2<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 13:07:45 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
<BR>
Ladies and gentlemen, I bring your attention to the beginning of the end.<BR>
The TML is on its last legs.  Leonard has declined to give a<BR>
scientifically-informed, technically accurate answer to a question.<BR>
<BR>
I will begin looking for a fresh host immediately; I advise you all to do<BR>
the same.  Don't be the last rat off this sadly sinking ship.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> >> Being that this list isn't XXX rated, and most of you *really* don't<BR>
> >> want to know, I'll refrain from listing any possiblitities.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Oh, come on, Leonard -- this isn't an *entertainment* list, either; it's<BR>
> > *science*.  Inquiring minds and stuff like that.  It's all about the<BR>
> > search for truth and technical advantage.<BR>
> <BR>
> Sorry, but it'll take more than that for me to risk permanently<BR>
> squicking members of the list. <BR>
> <BR>
> -- <BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:07:57 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: SF Trav game<BR>
<BR>
>From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
>Ok its a date. The Year2 Gathering of the TML at <BR>
>BayCon.<BR>
<BR>
I've just put it in my calendar.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 12:21:25 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: England<BR>
<BR>
Actually - and this may come as a suprise to Americans - Britain does<BR>
not have a bill of rights, or even a written constitution. The nearest<BR>
thing is the Charter 88 - a proposal for a bill of right - and that<BR>
was not started until 1988.<BR>
<BR>
FYI, the last invasion of Britain was during the Napolenic Wars, when<BR>
a bunch of Froggies attaked South Wales and (I kid you not) were<BR>
frightened away by Welsh wome wearing their traditional dress - the<BR>
red shawls and tall bleck hats were mistaken for soldiers' uniforms.<BR>
The last successful invasion was in 1066, without a doubt.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Mark<BR>
Watson<BR>
Sent: 21 December 1999 20:00<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: England<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>
>>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
>>Subject: Re: England<BR>
>...<BR>
>>>  Unless you count the Glorious Revolution, but it's perhaps a bit<BR>
impolite :><BR>
>><BR>
>>Assuming that you're referring to Cromwell's revolution:<BR>
>...<BR>
>>Admittedly, the monarchy was restored by a claimant from overseas,<BR>
but<BR>
>>this was not a conquest in the same sense as, say, Germany's<BR>
conquest of<BR>
>>France in AD 1940.<BR>
><BR>
>  The Restoration in 1660 was of the legitimate King; the<BR>
"Revolution" in<BR>
>1688 was the collapse of the then-current regime to a foreign prince.<BR>
A<BR>
>foreign prince who brought a substantial army with him; the fact that<BR>
the<BR>
>challenge was not taken up doesn't change the dubious nature of the<BR>
claim<BR>
>that no invasion took place, but that's more something for the Brits<BR>
to<BR>
>whine about :><BR>
<BR>
Er, the challenge was so taken up, in Ireland. That's a part of what<BR>
all this<BR>
stuff in Ulster is about (or at least part of the tradition of<BR>
troubles). As to<BR>
"then-current-regime" - the King was removed by Parliament and<BR>
replaced with<BR>
someone with better protestant credentials. In the modern sense, the<BR>
best<BR>
description would be a coup.<BR>
<BR>
btw, Parliament enshrined the principles underlying its actions in a<BR>
document<BR>
called the Bill of Rights.<BR>
<BR>
M<BR>
- --<BR>
Mark Watson, markw@antares.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 12:25:40 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller roadshows<BR>
<BR>
Maybe we should all get together for a game - somewhere neutral, like<BR>
Todmorden, which *should* be in Lancashire again <g>.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Matthew<BR>
Bond<BR>
Sent: 22 December 1999 02:16<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller roadshows<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: i Steve <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
<traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 21 December 1999 18:25<BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller roadshows<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>Really? Where in the north? I'm in Lancashire, near Rochdale.<BR>
><BR>
>Doncaster mate, the right side of the Pennines  *grin*<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Leeds here,<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond<BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 18:10:20 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: How much should a starship cost<BR>
<BR>
>Is there any more info on this vessel? I've been thinking about Jump<BR>
Capable<BR>
>Life Boats.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
There's a whole FFS design for it in Keepers of The Flame, the TNE Regency<BR>
Source Book.<BR>
<BR>
It's worth bearing in mind that this thing practically frags the jump drives<BR>
every time it jumps, and can only really be used between two properly<BR>
equipped ports for regular maintenance.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 18:10:55 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
>    Urrggh [Insert Snort-of-Disgust sound effect], not Aussie Rules (or<BR>
>Aerial Ping-Pong) but real Footie! The game where the mighty Aussies<BR>
>regularly thrash the Mother Countries lacklustre efforts.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
You mean Rugby Football?<BR>
<BR>
NB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:14:23 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Subject: In Jokes<BR>
<BR>
>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
>(several exchanges later, Sid's Vargr kicks the<BR>
>marine to death, while never even losing<BR>
>consciousness, after eating several FGMP 14 shots at<BR>
>point blank, fragments included. We swittched to MT<BR>
>shortly thereafter. like two weeks.)<BR>
<BR>
I think I've heard this story.  Point-blank high<BR>
energy weapon fire just doesn't make sense.  The firer<BR>
is in his own danger space.  It's like using a grenade<BR>
launcher at point-blank range (in fact, the grenade of<BR>
the M-79 is not armed until enough time after firing<BR>
so that it should be several meters away). <BR>
<BR>
Whatever the rules might say, I as a referee would not<BR>
allow point-blank HEW use -- or at least not a second<BR>
shot, after the first shot has fried the weapon.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1552<BR>
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